Last Night’s TV – The Event, How Racist Are You?
I’m not entirely sure that I came away from this programme with the correct impressions. I’m not even sure that any impression could be correct; maybe it’s all subjective. And by all, I mean not only the content of this programme but the subject it toyed with – that of racism.
And toy with it it did, for while it was billed as an “event” and therefore one expected something rather more conclusive and shocking than the actual result, what the entire thing came down to was a very simple experiment. Too simple in fact.
The result wasn’t a result at all and it all rather petered out to nothing, but that’s not to say it didn’t yield some discoveries, but again, I think calling it an ‘event’ was overreaching.
The entire thing was based around an experiment that teacher Jane Elliott used on her white pupils in the ‘60s. She separated brown eyed kids from blue eyed kids, with the instruction that those with blue eyes should be treated like second class citizens and generally derided and scorned.
The object? To get white kids to understand what it’s like to be held in contempt simply because of something about your physicality. And it was successful it seems back then, but with the aid of Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Elliott brought her experiment to the UK and tried to reconstruct it with rather shambolic results.
Throughout, Elliott came across as bossy, overbearing and often unpleasant, but for a large proportion of this programme, that was deliberate. Psychology and implementing its fundaments are of course pivotal to what amounted to a mind game, but there were other times that Elliott came across as having taken that ‘act’ on board and actually welded it into her persona.
When many of the members of both groups – the segregated blue eyed and the ‘superior’ brown eyed – objected to what was being asked of them, Elliott blamed latent racism for their reluctance to fully embrace her experiment. She refused to accept that some people just didn’t want to belittle and abuse someone else arbitrarily, simply because someone else had asked them to.
As I mentioned, Elliott often took exception to this, but surely the flip side of that coin is that history has shown us – especially with the Nazis – that groups and individuals who ‘hate’ because they’ve been told to, and not because they personally have any animosity towards the group they’re told to loathe, are vicariously being racist. So how can Elliott accuse those who chose to be non-participants of “latent racism” when they are refusing to be told to hate and act out that hate?
The whole thing buckled when a member of the brown eyed group told the blue eyed group that their intelligence test was a set up and ‘rigged’. And Krishnan’s attempts to discuss all that had gone on with Elliott was scuppered by her annoyance at the non-compliance of the participants.
I suspect the problem is that while children work on a very logical level – and understood via the experiment that to hate because of a physical difference is stupid – trying to get adults to replicate it didn’t take account of those adults abilities to see what was coming a mile off.
It was too simplistic and Elliott – though she has to be admired for her relentless work in exposing and helping to rid the world of racism – was too arrogant and unbending. She’s become a victim of her success with this experiment and though she described herself as “a bitch” she’s far from it – she just needs to stop pretending she is.
As to the overall effect of the programme, it was not the revelatory shocker which it was purported to be, but nonetheless, it was an interesting watch.
Loading ...
Tania. I don’t have time or the inclination to correct the views of half the people on here, but it’s obvious that some of them seem to think that racism is not and does not happen. They would look at your experience and suggest that you are paranoid. That’s what is so infuriating about last night’s program and today’s debate. It’s patently obvious that many people don’t experience racism, so they think it doesn’t exist.
The reality is a black or asian person can go out TONIGHT and be the victim of racist violence. Complaining that your ginger or carrying a few extra pounds is not in the same category, and if you think that it is, you obviously don’t understand what racism is.
The reason the blonde lady from last night made my blood boil for people who don’t get it, was because he body langauage at several points was that of someone who is lying. She actually had the nerve to say “I’ve been in the situation many times when I’ve had remarks made about my person, the fact that I’m white, the fact that I’m blonde” (33.45). Her eyes were looking up and to her right – in other words she was going into her logical brain to invent experiences, i.e. she was lying. She was doing the exact same thing a moment later when she said “I have possibly experienced as much discrimination as many black people”.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/the-event-how-racist-are-you/4od#3005915
The people get worked up that were attacking her for being racist do not have the EXPERIENCE of being discriminated against for years and developing a sixth sense for these things based on body language, small remarks etc. But the racism was there in that woman, clear as day to me.
I’ve got more from the last 4 posts than the entire show. What’s needed is a calm, reasoned debate rather than hectoring / nagging / bullying. Maybe two debates.
The first acknowledging and examining the evils of racism in all of its forms and defining the line between ignorance due to hate and ignorance due to lack of experience.
The second to openly debate the issues loosely associated with race which are ignored by the mainstream because of the fears of being branded racist. I won’t even mention them for fear of it all kicking off. IMO it’s the lack of the second one which has prompted the rise of extremism.
You’ve hit the nail on the head Derek. Bingo.
This page of comments has given a much deeper insight into the finer points of racism than the program did. After watching it i was very concious of the fact, that nowhere was the question of racism being inbuilt – as an animalistic tendancy- confronted.
I would be quite interested to hear some responses.
Thank you.
I think you’re right Derek. I have got pretty angry and worked up here, but then that’s because I’ve experienced racism throughout my life.
You’re right though, about the hysteria. And it may sound strange, but I would rather a person admit they have racist thoughts, and not be villified in the way some people are (e.g. Ron Atkinson), because it just gets people’s backs up. If we can get admitting to having racist thoughts, perhaps we can begin to challenge pre-concieved ideas and notions.
Maybe that extends to the woman who made the skin comment. There must be a certain amount of ignorance amoungst white people that black people are not the same as them, underneath the skin. These ideas cannot be challenged in a climate where white people feel afraid to say what’s on their mind.
First of all, I am not a racist, but this programme was pathetic and a waste of time. I am not saying racisim doesn’t exsist, but to “cure” it like that. Some of the comments that the “brown eyed” people were coming out with, like the fact that a sales assistant would not serve someone cos of there colour. Has she ever though, the sales assistant just has a probelm with people. People shouldnt take things to heart, unless a person actually says a racist word to your face. Do not complain. Its simple, Assumition is the mother of all f**k ups. I am a gay man, and I have experienced homophobia my whole life, but when a sales assitant doesnt serve me first, or even a bar a tender. I do not take it to heart. Its probably cos he fancies the girl next to me, people shouldnt get so uptight and take anything to heart, the woman was complaining that her child would get stopped running down the street cos he is black? He wouldnt he would get stopped for running. I was with my sister when she got stopped, a white woman. She got stopped. Also. The black man saying he wouldnt go pick his daughter up from School because he scared of what people think, to me that says that he is assuming white people are all racist, if he hasnt been to his daughter’s school, then how will know what is going on.
I would like to agree with the points made that the experiment insinuated only whites are racist,this is totally wrong. I am a white female with an asian boyfriend of 5yrs and I have experienced out right racism from his muslim family and friends who are totally against us marring in the near future just because I am WHITE. What alarms me the most is that these people are mainly professionals who are treating and working amongst white people everyday.I realise that not all asian muslims are racist in the same way it should be recognised that NOT all whites are racist.
I didn’t like the fact that the experiment was directed at whites as the only perpetrators of racism but I do believe that debating the issue of racism is vital for the future of multi-cultural Britain, hopefully then we can stop pointing fingers and start to build bridges between cultures. We do not need to loose are own identities, lets embrace the diversity of cultures,set aside race and religion and except each other for who we are.
I have a feeling we still have a very long way to go because racism is passed on from adult to child, adult to adult and child to child like a never ending virus.
This experiment put across the argument that all white people are racist, this argument inevitability leads to the slave trade and the idea that i should be ashamed of my ancestors. Well i am not, the slave trade that my ancestors may have been part of was no different from the slave trades that existed in the following societies, Roman, Egyptian, Aztec, Mayan, Spanish, Dutch, Persian, China, in fact in every successful society prior to william wilberforces abolition of the slave trade in 1807 involved themselves in some form of slavery this is including african tribes who sold slaves to the british slave trade and had slaves themselves. Yes thats correct black people have throughout history owned slaves so if you believe that white people are in some way indebted to other races because of the colour of there skin based on slavery then you are being hypocritical. It is easy to look at our ancestors and place twenty-first century morals onto how they lived but its not fair to do this instead i like to focus on what good my ancestors gave me like all the british inventions that give us much more fulfilling lives tv, radio, computers, internet just to name a few of the many inventions.
In response to Sofia’s ignorant response I HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY!!!!
“Yes Racism might be directed towards other races as well except Blacks. And yes NOT ALL white people are racists, but that was NOT the point.”
No I’m afraid that was the point, Elliot was determined to label all white people racist based on the colour of their skin, based on past behavior of our ancestors, that in itself is a racist thing to do!!
“If some of the white people were not so ‘unreasonably’ uncooperative, then we might have been able to see the outcome of the experiment. But not really ‘Unreasonably’… There was a reason behind their constant arguments and drama scenes: either they were desperate for the cameras and attention. Or it’s simply because they are in fact racists.”
No it couldn’t possibly be that she was sick of being thought of as a racist based on the colour of her skin and chose to speak out about the ridiculousness of it. It has to be that she wants camera attention or is a racist deep down, grow the feneck up. She just wan’t taking Elliot’s bullsheite attack, remember she didn’t know that this was an experiment to see how inherently racist people were, but the brown eyes did know and all the black people and asians didn’t hold back when letting rip at the whites for the racism that they had suffered when I’m pretty sure it wasn’t at the hands of any of the white people in that room that day, so they were letting rip on those innocents for their suffering based on the fact that they too were white people just like their punisher’s. The white woman just thought she was being attacked, and I’m pretty sure I would have reacted the same, if not worse, especially when the smug black lady kept bleating about her poor lot in life. She couldn’t wait to have a go at one of the white people for sins they didn’t commit, this just shows that she was racist against the white people. I’m pretty sure I would have told her to f e* c k off and grow some!! You expect white people to do something about you being called a name or being served second in a shop, what a load of….by the way, what is it you want us to do. Speak up on your behalf, how about you do it for yourselves, if someone doesn’t serve you in your turn in the shop, say so, don’t let some spotty little oik mess you about at the till….again grow some.
“The comments of one of the members of the ‘blue eyed team’ prove it very loudly. Despite her certainty of not being a racist herself, she admitted that when one of her black pupils (she is a teacher!!! My God!)(ME-THINKS YOU ARE JUST SEARCHING FOR SOMETHING RACIST HERE) was hurted and bleeded, she was surprised to find out that her flesh was pink!!! Not racist at all!!! Keep dreaming that everything is fine.”
This is ignorant in itself, ridiculous that she should know that black skin is not even skin deep. How would she know this unless she had taken someones skin off layer by layer to find out. It’s not like black skin is a Tan, it’s completely different. It’s not racist it’s also not ignorant. Please look up the definition of ignorance people, a clue is in the word itself, ignore!!! She needs to have known the stuff first to ignore it in favour of her own warped beliefs for her to be ignorant!! she is just unaware, not the same as the derogatory term some black/Asian people lend to white people as being ignorant!! You’d think that black skin was black skin, not pink underneath, I think that is a completely sound thought to have, why wouldn’t it be??? Please answer me this…………….she probably hadn’t thought much about it.
“I was so frustrated that some white people couldn’t just shut up and let the experiment move on. They could have saved their valuable comments for the end, after they actually see the results…” (I am frustrated that you chose to not shut up here too)
Why should they just shut up and put up, innocent white people don’t expect you to..we just expect you to not have a go at all white people because of the actions of other dicks. Yeah some people are racist and some people are sizeist and others are homophobic, why is racism worse than any of the others, you claim it’s because you were born that way and can’t change it but it is the same for Homosexuals and ginger haired people, Gays shouldn’t have to be unhappy to please other people or to avoid ridicule, the same as ginger haired people shouldn’t have to dye their hair a different colour to avoid ridicule. Or is racism worse because it’s been around for so long…get over the past, it wasn’t us…who are you trying to punish, we didn’t do it and I’ll be damned if I’m gonna keep taking the blame for something my ancestors did without my permission. If people are racist to you just be racist back, grow some nuts and deal with it. What are you five? It’s only really extremists that are violent in a racial manner and there are extremists touting all issues, racism, homophobia, islamaphobia, they’re not the majority and just like it’s not fair to label all burqa wearing people terrorists it is not fair to label all white people racists. Calling someone racist with no cause is offensive itself, it’s like calling someone a lier or a thief. It’s not acceptable whne unfounded.
“But no… they were certain there is not such a thing as racism in our days…”
Oh this is not the problem, the point being that they refused to be bullied and blamed for something they had no part in, refusing to accept a warped idea of someone elses about picking up their own daughter form school because he was worried about how the ‘white’ people would react to him just backs up the idea that black people are racist toward all white people…on what grounds is this ever acceptable behavior, if he had never been to the “all white” school how the hell would he know that he would be received in a less than favorable manner, he didn’t he just assumed in his own stereotypical way that he would be judged by white people. But of course white people aren’t allowed to play the racist card because we haven’t been subjected to decades of racism like Blacks have so we’re not entitled…hypocrite much???
“So, why noone of the coloured members of the experiment didn’t react with similar arguments and only white people claimed such things.”
Because black people just want someone to blame for their own misgivings, and they don’t care who it is, whether it’s these innocent white people or whatever, always so quick to play the racist card. It couldn’t possibly be that they weren’t right for the job or the promotion, it had to be because he was black!! Women have suffered with this for years, much more so than blacks have(black US president, when is it going to be a woman president, never because she is not seen as a strong leader, home maker yes, sex to yes but not leader of a great nation, she can budget your house bills and plan an eventful 6 week summer break but God forbid she should run a country. You don’t see them running around half as much touting the woman card!! No it’s not because you are black it’s because of a stereotype that you are lazy, nothing to do with your skin colour but your culture. Black people grew up in Africa and much like how gods are worshiped elsewhere often taken from things surrounding us, well (and this I was told by a black man) the black man takes his inspirations from the king of Africa, the male lion, and what does the male lion do while the female lions work their butts off? nadda, zip zilch, they sleep actually and then bowl in to take their share of the kill!!! and watch for impending danger from the comfort of their perches, not even strolling beyond their perimeters to keep oncoming at bay. This is where African men get their laziness, this is what I have been told, and on the basis of evolution and what I know about origins of belief and philosophy makes complete sense.
“If Black/Asian humans feel that they are victims of racism, doesn’t it worth considering their point before arguing? Doesn’t it worth just keep your mouth shut for a bit and reconsider that maybe your ideas to date are wrong. And after that, if you still believe the same, fair enough. But they couldn’t even do that. So Ignorant and stubborn.”
She has probably listened, time and time again way before she took part in this programme, but has already made up her mind. But that’s not fair enough is it, because she must listen to everyone who has a gripe to make, we must endure this crap because of our ancestors mistakes, which were no different to your own being enslaved. I heard a black woman tell a Muslim that she chose to live here and wasn’t dragged here and could go home if she didn’t like it. Pot kettle black!!!! Where does she get off, why can’t she go home if she didn’t like it, she was obviously harboring some hatred obvious from the tone in which she said the part about being dragged here she could fec kerits back too as far as I am concerned. but god forbid anyone tell her to go home,
basically not all white people re racists, more are becoming racist everyday but still not all are and the blacks and asians need to realise this and stop tarring whites with the same brush just as they don’t like to all be labeled lazy or terrorists they should work toward not labelling all whites as racist, It’s not just white people who need to address issues.
I just watched the show on 4OD, and I am not even slightly surprised.
Whites, as per usual, were treated all throughout as if they were automatically racist and had to learn a lesson on it, simply because of their skin colour, and the non-whites all just seemed to go along with that, and also assumed they were automatically victims of racism because of their skin colour, the usual victim mentality that gets played day in, day out by women, non-whites, and gays, it really is quite pathetic.
The black woman with the googly eyes really pissed me off, she cited examples of racism that were not examples of racism, like someone being served before her in a shop, well that’s happened to me a few times, I always put it down to an arsehole at the checkout, I never assumed that particular checkout assistant hated me because of my race/skin colour, so why did she?
I, as a white male, have been stopped and searched by the police on countless occasions, I always put that down to the police doing their job, I never assumed they hated me because of my race/skin colour, so why does she think this when her son is searched?
Another thing that annoyed me, was the constant use of the word “subtle” when talking of racism, when cast-iron examples couldn’t be cited, because there weren’t any, the non-whites just said “Whites can’t see it because it’s subtle”, what a cop-out, whites can’t see it because unlike non-whites, they don’t spend all the livelong day looking for anything that can be construed as slightly racist.
I’ll give you an example of how much of a joke the accusation of racism is, if I said that I didn’t like Noel Edmonds, no-one would bat an eyelid, and it would be put down as me simply not liking Noel Edmonds, but if I said I didn’t like Lenny Henry, I would be immediately labelled as a racist, as if the only reason I could possibly dislike someone who is non-white is racism, that’s what it’s like as a white person, you feel you have to walk on eggshells because of how sensitive non-whites are, it’s ridiculous.
Believe me, it’s not just whites that are racist, as this very short clip demonstrates, I uploaded this a while ago to prove this very point, funny how no black person has yet commented on the video to give an explanation that would justify it, yes, funny that, because if this was a white comedian, you would already have seen this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k87JOeM3wUc
Fed Up London Male
I disagree with Elliot’s opinion that All white people are racist (I do know that a lot black and Asian people are racist as well) and I am sure that our society today has made big steps forwarded compared to 50’s – 60’s.
But racism is still an issue in UK and can be in different forms: from ‘innocent’ race jocks to violent extremism. That needs to be looked into with open mind and without unnecessary defensive attitude.
I do believe that Elliot’s experiment could have educated EVERYONE about racism and investigate what ticks humans to feel superior to others. Don’t forget that the two groups were divided on the base of their eye colour and not their skin colour, because Elliot wanting to prove to them that skin discrimination (or, if you like, ANY discrimination) is as ridiculous as a discrimination based on the eye colour. Even if some members in the event felt that they were not racists themselves, they should still recognize that racism exists and therefore accept to fully participate in the experiment for the sake of assisting at least others understanding racism better. Their defensiveness was pathetic, stubborn, narrow minded, unjustified….
I am white and consequently fortunate to say (& honestly admit) that I never experienced racism directed to myself. I certainly don’t believe that race or skin colour gives any indigenous characteristics to individuals; but I admit though that when being next to someone that is different in a way from myself (be it skin colour or ethnic origin) I cannot help of being constantly conscious of this difference. I would like one day to stop being conscious of such differences in the same way that I am not conscious of differences in eye colour. Or at least my ‘unborn’ children to grow up in a world that all skin colours, all religions and ethnic origins do not have any prejudice whatsoever about each other and their paths to cross without their eyes even spotting out such differences.
Maybe this is impossible. Still, I would like to investigate it and give it a go.
So, I recognize that there is room for improvement not only for others, but also for myself and that’s why I would be more than happy to participate in the experiment. Because the only thing that I can be certain of is that I do NOT know everything and that there is always more that I can do to educate and better myself.
As far as the ignorant teacher is concerned: her comment and her whole attitude was 100% pure original racist. It wasn’t ignorance or stupidity. It was based in her deep (unconscious maybe) belief that black people are different from white people. Shame you do not recognize it; but most of the other people commenting in this forum seem to agree on this. What colour did she expect to see? Do you really have to be a scientist or a doctor to know this? The fact that she is a teacher makes it so much worse and is the most shocking. She cannot be justified to be ‘ignorant’ on such common facts. Everyone should be furious that such people are allowed to educate our children.
I am a 20 year old atheist white male from a rural lower middle-class background who is now living while at university in a area very culturally different from my own. I am telling you so you can understand the background of my viewpoint and any limitations it may have.
Racism does exist Fact, to think otherwise is naive, it is not solely from one community but spread across many cultural groups, in all their are those who are open minded and loving while willing to either embrace others cultures too or respect them while strictly maintaing their own, those who will act in the manner they feel will most aide themselves at any given time and those who Can see no further than their own Culture.
I have friends from many backgrounds who have suffered racial abuse and have upon moving to a new area for Uni experienced some racism myself, though i do agree that as a white person in a predominately white country I a have so far as racism had it easy.
The Cause of Racism I feel is fear and Lack of understanding though the two are heavily tied.
Fear of change, fear of the unknown, Fear of difference etc.
Those fears in themselves are understandable, part of human nature that if something is different to the norm for you then to be weary of it.
The Problem however is not fear it is what people do with it, if you understand what is different how things are changing, their is nothing to fear any longer, knowledge enlightens us that after all their is no difference between who we are. We all have the ability’s of empathy, love etc. It is the people who reject change and are unwilling to change what they know as the norm, that remain scared and are racist.
Different cultures have much to offer one another I am personally so pleased I live in a country where I Can experience and take part in so much culture. That I can experience first hand the traditions of others and enjoy a far more artistically colorful place to be.
I May chose to live my life in a different manner to other people no matter what their cultural group, but we all have very similar morals as people.
Ethic groups on both sides of divides don’t always help the situation by alienating themselves, communities need to be communities where everyone takes part and is invited into events, close doors need to be open doors people may not want to take part but they shouldn’t feel ostracized either. If people are given the chance to understand some may actually begin to.
Their will always be some people unwilling to change, some people looking to lay the blame on a minority in order to avoid issues, issues that may sometimes lay no further away then themselves. They may be racist but first of all they may be either weak, close minded and unwilling to accept that they may be the one to blame.
I remember sundays I argued with my granddad a man I loved very dearly about how he viewed some cultural groups. I tried to help him understand that people are people and their is no difference between us no mater how we looked or what book we read but he was close minded and would never change. He was not a bad man far from it, not an extreme right wing racist that would have everybody shot and killed, But he was a man who had grown up in a different world and found the changes that had happened hard to deal with, he did not understand other religions, he had never experienced other cultures, he was scared of what he saw threatened his world.
These people need time, patience, love and knowledge they will not change over night and may never do but to Tar them with the brush of being a racist and nothing more is to miss the point and only make them more adamant that what they are saying is right.
Extremism is another matter and is a minority to the subtle racism that is almost seen as acceptable, no matter what ethnic background it is wrong and I am not making excuses for them, to value your life and culture over any others to the extent where you actively go out of your way to cause pain, suffering and sadness in others is purely sick.
I do not think that in my lifetime or possibly ever racism will cease to exist however much we was a people try to stop it, im not saying we should not bother trying we should try as hard as we humanly can. But sadly a minority will always be found by the weak in the masses, to blame for something, bully for their own gain, and alienate.
I Do however hope that as older generations die out, that if we can help show children all the wonders of the world we live and the people that live here that racism will be finally outcast, and not just swept under the rug.
Their are far bigger issues that this world faces to deal with, then why one persons skin pigment may be different to yours, or they may chose to pray to a god with a different name.
Sofia, she wasn’t thinking that black people were different from white people, she didn’t think that under the top dermis the girl would have green skin or fur she just assumed it would be black skin all the way through, that’s not thinking that blacks are different or any worse than white people. our skin is the same colour all the way through so why wouldn’t black peoples be?
I think the whole argument of racism has been warped by many years of peoples arguments being regurgitated, it needs to be redefined so that people know what a racist comment or action is and not just an opinion or preference. People are allowed to prefer things, I like chicken more than I like beef but that doesn’t mean I hate beef!! People always assume too much of others when race is concerned, and it always seems that white people bear the brunt of the racist blame when it’s just not the facts of history. Being called a racist because they are white is no different from being called anything else based on colour. The blue eyes people, who incidently were obviously going to be white people, (and Elliot knew this as all her remarks at the end of the show were about white people not blue eyed people.) should not have sat there just to let some poxy experiment go through, as it was faulted and taught people nothing other than blacks love to shout about racism a lot to innocent white people. Elliot has no idea whether the white people needed to learn a lesson and I don’t think many of the viewers learnt anything either except that white people are stubborn as mules and won’t sit there to be disparaged by some hick American geriatric for no good damn reason. No matter what the topic of debate. And anyone who claims they learnt something from this poor excuse of a test, if they’re honest with themselves will admit that their new conceptions they already had somewhere stored away in their minds anyway. The experiment you can bleat was about discrimination of blue eyed people, but it wasn’t and all discussion turned to blacks and Asians again just as these topics usually do and Elliot did not correct them as no one had any debate to put forward about being discriminated about their eye colour.
Shambles shambles shambles, if people are going to argue about racism I just hope it is from educated masses and not just those who had read a statistic or two somewhere and want to state it as Gospel truth just so they can put their two pence worth in. Black kids get stopped more than white kids, baloney, people getting served before me in the queue at the supermarket, whenever has anyone waled in front of me blatantly at a queue in a supermarket?? never and I’m pretty sure not many people even try to queue jump these days coz it’s too embarrassing being caught out doing so. regurgitated examples of racism are so dated that they’re just not given much credibility these days. it might happen that someone gets served before you in a bar or fast food restaurant because they’re busy but never seen it myself in a shop nor would I evaluate such an occurance so much that I would come to the conclusion that it was because of my appearance that I wasn’t served first.
In my opinion I think there are certain minorities that just won’t let it go and look for it, over analysing it, like the dad not picking up his kid, he made an assumption of white people without any proof, he’s expecting it to happen. Black people expect white people to be racist even when we’re not, so we’re presumed guilty before proven innocent!!! Explain that one.
Fed Up London Male your comments highlights the problems I had with my partner at first because he did not trust my assessment of reading an situation, him being white male and I an non white female. We are still to together 15 years later, and he would confirm the many occasions I was over looked in a queue waiting to be served. That is the more obvious example of being treated different.
I don’t subscribe to the idea that “All White People are Racist” but certainly to the idea that deep down within the majority (white individuals) come from a position of power unlike an non white person who up against it on issues of employment, education or accessing services like health or finance.
It was difficult for my partner to accept he benefit from an system design to have me at a disadvantage. And No Fed Up London Male I don’t want you or any white person to carry guilt from knowing you continue to gain from the suffering of another? Just would like you to open your mine to the idea perhaps for many non white they know you have to ‘Play the game’ in order to survive. Which translate to Don’t talk about the reality of being non white or you be brand as play the race card or become one with a chip on their shoulder, or like you said a minority who just won’t let it go and look for it, over analysing it.
Fed Up London Male says:
Black people expect white people to be racist even when we’re not, so we’re presumed guilty before proven innocent!!! Explain that one.
The question I must ask, do you think because a white women on a TV programme said social conditioning from birth for the last few hundred years has condition whites to see themselves as superior and non whites as inferior? That Black people would suddenly expect white people to be racist.
Come on, and what she said was “WE (as White people) are conditioned to the myth of White superiority”. This was after she made the little high school joke. She did not say “yes i do think all White people are Racist”.
Racism has not gone away, while speaking to my child teacher, she made several comments
“You don’t sound Black over the phone.”
What does Black sound like?
I ask her to explain herself… “You’re so articulate.”
Why would exhibiting proper behavior, manners be categorized as acting white? If that’s the case, what does it mean to act Black?
Yes, the teacher may intend a compliment, but what may be meant as praise instead comes across as being condescending. It implies the person being complimented is an exception to the rule and is exhibiting behavior a typical of others of his or her ethnic background.
There’s nothing wrong with natural curiosity about an ethnic culture and cuisine. However some comments are inappropriate “You” people Who exactly are “You people,” and how do they differ from regular people?
“I don’t think of you as Black” and the ultimate faux pas The N-word. Just the word is used liberally, that doesn’t give anyone license to make conversational use of the word.
Osram says “Just the word is used liberally, that doesn’t give anyone license to make conversational use of the word.”
Well Osram, I’m sure you’re aware that the N word is used by and large by black people, which I assume is when it counts as “liberally” to yourself, and as I have said before, if black people find that particular word offensive, then they should cease using the word.
What I find incredibly insulting, is not the use of the word, but the fact that black people seem to make this rule where it’s perfectly acceptable for them to use it, but absolutely unacceptable for whites to use it, I don’t live my life like that, and I’m sure blacks wouldn’t want to either, example, if whites were going around constantly referring to each other as “Casper”, it would then be quite ridiculous of them to claim offence just because it’s said by someone of a different colour, I don’t know why intelligent black people can’t see this.
I’m not saying that I want to use the N word, I’m just saying it’s wrong to have two rules for different people, it should be one rule.
I raised this very issue here: http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1642624
Omar, there aren’t two rules. You’ll find a majority of black people haven’t signed up to the 2nd rule, of which you speak (and in the US, where the term is more liberally bandied around, it’s used in the context of rap music or amongst those who follow the ethos of rappers who believe they’re reclaiming the term and using it as a term of empowerment). That excuse has never washed with me (a black person, let me point out), but to even suggest that all black people are the same or belong to a particular club defined by the colour of our skin (”if black people find that particular word offensive, then they should cease using the word.”) is a bit silly to say the least – especially if you think cultures operate by “rules”. Maybe (and just maybe) certain cultural conventions, but even these are subjective.
Don’t stereotype.
I’m not stereotyping, it’s stone cold fact, black people use the word far more often than anyone else, they are also more likely to be offended by the word, there is no stereotyping here, you know it, I’m not saying all black people subscribe to the same ideas, just that when it comes to that particular word, blacks use it more, and find it more offensive, that’s all I’m saying.
I’m not putting anyone down or stereotyping, I’m not suggesting all black people use that word, of course not, but come on, majority-wise, who uses it more and who is more offended by it’s use, in your opinion?
Hello I dont like this rasist talk
I dont come to uk to get my accomadation now
Omar Little says: Well Osram, I’m sure you’re aware that the N word is used by and large by black people, which I assume is when it counts as “liberally” to yourself, and as I have said before, if black people find that particular word offensive, then they should cease using the word.
NO Omar I have never used the N word nor has any members of my family, friends, co workers etc. Nor would I allow this word to be used by any one else regardless of their race. It is an inappropriate word, and is not fit for conversation.
Omar Little says: What I find incredibly insulting, is not the use of the word, but the fact that black people seem to make this rule where it’s perfectly acceptable for them to use it, but absolutely unacceptable for whites to use it.
This is an assumption or an stereotype that black people would have one rule for themselves and another for white.
Omar Little says I’m not stereotyping, it’s stone cold fact, black people use the word far more often than anyone else, they are also more likely to be offended by the word, there is no stereotyping here, you know it, I’m not saying all black people subscribe to the same ideas, just that when it comes to that particular word, blacks use it more, and find it more offensive, that’s all I’m saying.
I mentioned it in my post because the N word was directed at me during a school parent meeting. And I would say you are stereotyping to suggest the N word is used by blacks more than whites.
You reasoning reads too much like…..because Beyonce shakes her bottom in music videos she is highly sex creature.
Non white culture are stereotype in the media, it hasnt changed much – the dancing “jigga boo is now basically the ganster rapper”
Stereotyping? I think not.
You must be seriously deluded if you think the N word is used more by white people than by black people, to suggest otherwise shows true naivety.
Not only do black people, not all of them, use the word more, but they’re allowed to openly use the word, if you can’t see this either, then return to my naivety remark.
I don’t know you from Adam, but I assume you’re black, and I also assume you find the word insulting, but don’t assume because you find the word offensive to black people that whites must use it more, they simply don’t, and if they did ever use it, it would have to be in a confined space where they knew for a fact that the present company wouldn’t object, not so for black people, they can say it wherever and whenever they please, absolutely hypocritical in my book.
I look at it like this, if I found a word insulting, for example, “Aardvark”, and it annoyed me to hear the word being used, I wouldn’t go around referring to people as aardvark.
Due to copyright restrictions, my YouTube video was removed, I’d love to have shown you it, it was a clip from the movie Coach Carter with Samuel L Jackson, his players are high-fiving one another and one of them calls another “My nigga”, Jackson then explains to him that that particular word was used to insult their ancestors, and that if a white man used it he’d be ready to fight, so never use the word in his presence again.
I know it’s just a movie, but I believe that more black people need to do that, stand up and tell others that it’s unacceptable, regardless of their skin colour, and I believe you sound like just that type of guy, I hope I’m right.
Omar Little says:I don’t know you from Adam, but I assume you’re black, and I also assume you find the word insulting, but don’t assume because you find the word offensive to black people that whites must use it more, they simply don’t, and if they did ever use it, it would have to be in a confined space where they knew for a fact that the present company wouldn’t object,
I think if one was to judge the actions of a few individuals and used ones assumptions as a template to generalised about a group most would see that as being short sighted.
Your assumption white people would only used the N word in present company wouldn’t object. I would say that is the reasoning the parent thought when she was speaking to me. Although my partner and I had only spoken to her to say hello or goodbye as hfax was not my
not so for black people, they can say it wherever and whenever they please, absolutely hypocritical in my book.
A lot of movies, music videos label as black popular culture are not uplifting or conceived with black individuals best interests in mind, the N word is just another example of the media’s divisive method which try to impose on non white what it means to be black and how we should treat each other.
I don’t subscibe to the notion of being complacent and allowing the media to define non white using stereotypes. As it is the sure road to losing one’s dignity, self-respect and self-worth.
However one can not ignored the patterns of behaviour of others in your day to day. I am not explaining to other non white individuals that the N word is not fit for conversation. I do so to white people in situations which they should know better like the parent meeting at school. What I find strange is that most of the offenders do not know the history of the word.
What about that white girl who got kicked off of Big Brother for using the word nigger!! She wasn’t saying it in a racist way she just said it coz she claims she has Black friends and they just use the word as it is, A word. But she was still slated as a racist even though her best friend in the house was the one she called a nigger. Then the black girl jumped on the bandwagon and started saying that she was offended when she admitted to the white girl that she didn’t care but that she should be careful when saying that word. The next minute she’s whining in the diary room pointing fingers!!
Totally unacceptable behaviour, The white girl was no more racist than anyone else, in her daily life the word nigger was just normal lingo, and maybe even used between her black and white friends as the endearing tone that blacks use it with each other, as a reference to brotherhood and sisterhood.
But of course her being white God forbid she would say nigger and not mean it offensively, she must be RACIST, do me a favour!!
“But of course her being white God forbid she would say nigger and not mean it offensively, she must be RACIST, do me a favour!!”
I know bud, it would be laughable if it wasn’t so insulting to our intelligence.
Fed Up London Male says: What about that white girl who got kicked off of Big Brother for using the word nigger!! She wasn’t saying it in a racist way
White person use of n word is provocative
Fed Up London Male says: she just said it coz she claims she has Black friends and they just use the word as it is, A word.
I do see the point, continous use of the N word in media/ culture only legitimises other to use the word but It’s dangerous to make assumptions the N word is offensive because its past usage as an racial slur. I have never heard a european sing a song calling himself a cracker or say wus up my honkey!!! Number one in the pop music. The N word is not “A word”….. it`s what it represents , what it refer to , where it came from , who used it and why did they use it ?
Fed Up London Male says: But she was still slated as a racist even though her best friend in the house was the one she called a nigger. Then the black girl jumped on the bandwagon and started saying that she was offended when she admitted to the white girl that she didn’t care but that she should be careful when saying that word. The next minute she’s whining in the diary room pointing fingers!!
For me it shows that the meaning of the N word cannot be changed “internally” as it is a word that didnt originate with non whites but has been adopted by pop culture. This girl showed her ignorance by using the word. No word is soley for private used, but is use in the public domain espeically on TV, which means open to interpretation by everyone. The fact she was define as a racist by some should not be an surprize, as the N word degree of offensiveness has increased markedly in recent years.
Fed Up London Male says: Totally unacceptable behaviour, The white girl was no more racist than anyone else, in her daily life the word nigger was just normal lingo, But of course her being white God forbid she would say nigger and not mean it offensively, she must be RACIST, do me a favour!!
She may have meant the slang form for homie, friend, but not all non white aspirses to define themselves by popular culture. And for many non whites the N word is an disparaging term for non white.
Derek says:
October 30, 2009 at 8:23 pm
What’s needed is a calm, reasoned debate rather than hectoring / nagging / bullying. Maybe two debates.
The first acknowledging and examining the evils of racism in all of its forms and defining the line between ignorance due to hate and ignorance due to lack of experience.
*****
Have you ever tried to have a calm reasoned debate with some white person about why they shouldn’t have said or done the offensive racist thing they said or did – all the while they’re defending themselves to the point of being angry and finally dismissing the fact that they’ve done anything wrong?
That you feel we should even have to explain why racism and bigotry are wrong proves that white folks are not reasonable. White people are best unthinking and uncaring; at worst, territorial and violently protective of what they feel is “theirs”.
The only way to call attention, is to what you call “nag” – what a horrible way to describe people simply standing up for what’s right.
@Deborah
Way to completely miss my point Deborah. Did you read any of the earlier posts?
Before I even start to answer, you say ‘…white folks are not reasonable. White people are best unthinking and uncaring; at worst, territorial and violently protective of what they feel is “theirs”’
I’m shaking my head in disbelief at that. Is it only racism against black people that’s wrong then? You seem perfectly fine with anti-white racism.
But anyway back to the point. By all means get angry when someone is being racist (and I’m fairly angry at you for that reason) but if we’re going to have any sort of sensible debate about the issues around race (not whether it’s right or wrong – I’m firmly on the ‘wrong’ side shame you don’t seem to feel the same way) it has to be calm because as soon as emotion gets involved people blurt out things they haven’t thought through and hopefully don’t really mean as I think you’ve just proved.