Last Night’s TV – The Event, How Racist Are You?
I’m not entirely sure that I came away from this programme with the correct impressions. I’m not even sure that any impression could be correct; maybe it’s all subjective. And by all, I mean not only the content of this programme but the subject it toyed with – that of racism.
And toy with it it did, for while it was billed as an “event” and therefore one expected something rather more conclusive and shocking than the actual result, what the entire thing came down to was a very simple experiment. Too simple in fact.
The result wasn’t a result at all and it all rather petered out to nothing, but that’s not to say it didn’t yield some discoveries, but again, I think calling it an ‘event’ was overreaching.
The entire thing was based around an experiment that teacher Jane Elliott used on her white pupils in the ‘60s. She separated brown eyed kids from blue eyed kids, with the instruction that those with blue eyes should be treated like second class citizens and generally derided and scorned.
The object? To get white kids to understand what it’s like to be held in contempt simply because of something about your physicality. And it was successful it seems back then, but with the aid of Krishnan Guru-Murthy, Elliott brought her experiment to the UK and tried to reconstruct it with rather shambolic results.
Throughout, Elliott came across as bossy, overbearing and often unpleasant, but for a large proportion of this programme, that was deliberate. Psychology and implementing its fundaments are of course pivotal to what amounted to a mind game, but there were other times that Elliott came across as having taken that ‘act’ on board and actually welded it into her persona.
When many of the members of both groups – the segregated blue eyed and the ‘superior’ brown eyed – objected to what was being asked of them, Elliott blamed latent racism for their reluctance to fully embrace her experiment. She refused to accept that some people just didn’t want to belittle and abuse someone else arbitrarily, simply because someone else had asked them to.
As I mentioned, Elliott often took exception to this, but surely the flip side of that coin is that history has shown us – especially with the Nazis – that groups and individuals who ‘hate’ because they’ve been told to, and not because they personally have any animosity towards the group they’re told to loathe, are vicariously being racist. So how can Elliott accuse those who chose to be non-participants of “latent racism” when they are refusing to be told to hate and act out that hate?
The whole thing buckled when a member of the brown eyed group told the blue eyed group that their intelligence test was a set up and ‘rigged’. And Krishnan’s attempts to discuss all that had gone on with Elliott was scuppered by her annoyance at the non-compliance of the participants.
I suspect the problem is that while children work on a very logical level – and understood via the experiment that to hate because of a physical difference is stupid – trying to get adults to replicate it didn’t take account of those adults abilities to see what was coming a mile off.
It was too simplistic and Elliott – though she has to be admired for her relentless work in exposing and helping to rid the world of racism – was too arrogant and unbending. She’s become a victim of her success with this experiment and though she described herself as “a bitch” she’s far from it – she just needs to stop pretending she is.
As to the overall effect of the programme, it was not the revelatory shocker which it was purported to be, but nonetheless, it was an interesting watch.
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To say this experiment is about ‘racism’ rather misses the point – it’s about arbitrary discrimination and the exercise of power to oppress. What it admirably demonstrated was the unwillingness of the white people in the experiment to cede that power – the protestations of ‘freedom of expression’ and ‘not being a racist’ were undermined by the outright denial when asked to listen to voices of authentic experience.
Yes Racism might be directed towards other races as well except Blacks. And yes NOT ALL white people are racists, but that was NOT the point.
If some of the white people were not so ‘unreasonably’ uncooperative, then we might have been able to see the outcome of the experiment.
But not really ‘Unreasonably’… There was a reason behind their constant arguments and drama scenes: either they were desperate for the cameras and attention. Or it’s simply because they are in fact racists. The comments of one of the members of the ‘blue eyed team’ prove it very loudly. Despite her certainty of not being a racist herself, she admitted that when one of her black pupils (she is a teacher!!! My God!) was hurted and bleeded, she was surprised to find out that her flesh was pink!!! Not racist at all!!! Keep dreaming that everything is fine…
I was so frustrated that some white people couldn’t just shut up and let the experiment move on. They could have saved their valuable comments for the end, after they actually see the results… But no… they were certain there is not such a thing as racism in our days…
So, why noone of the coloured members of the experiment didn’t react with similar arguments and only white people claimed such things. If Black/Asian humans feel that they are victims of racism, doesn’t it worth considering their point before arguing? Doesn’t it worth just keep your mouth shut for a bit and reconsider that maybe your ideas to date are wrong. And after that, if you still believe the same, fair enough. But they couldn’t even do that. So Ignorant and stubborn.
I found last night compelling viewing, even if it didn’t go according to plan. I disagree with the writer of this article, I did think the mistreatment of a few grown adults was acceptable for just a few hours, if only to prove a point and educate them. Given that ethnic minorities recieve mistreatment for much of their lives, a few hours of standing in their shoes might teach others a lesson. there was a moral purpose to Jane Elliot’s actions, and I applaud her for the way she handled things. She’s probably a nice person in real life, but that’s not the point – she needed to play a character for the thing to work. It’s sad that it didn’t due to an act of sabotage.
I did also note that the teacher pointed out by Sofia Ali was a “closet” racist. She was protesting throughout that racism does not exist, and that we all have it bad, clearly unable or unwilling to acknowledge that racist mistreatment is different and life threatening rather than, say, being giggled at for being, as she was, blonde. On the basis of the show, there’s a long way to go with race relations in this country, as there are many people who hold similar, latent views.
I could not believe the woman who made the statement “a black child was pink underneath her skin” I hope her school strikes her off the register and she loses her job, that would serve her right for saying such a thing, I work in education and was appalled by such a comment and that woman should be ashamed and disgusted with herself. I feel sorry for her pupils and the other staff working alongside her. I would not like to be in her shoes today………
Well done Jane Elliot for doing a good job, you should be honoured for your work over the years.
Can someone explain why not knowing that Afro-Caribean people’s flesh colour is the same as all other races is a racist comment? Whilst the teacher may well be a racist, to me this ignorance does not neccesarily prove that she is.
Gubbs, sadly I can explain why such a thought it racist – because it implies that the young black girl is not a human being like other white people. As if, you were to go beneath the skin, it would reveal that as a black girl, she is made out of, I don’t know, lizard skin, or some monkey stuff.
The blonde teacher came across as not racist but incredibly ignorant. I would not want my children in her class. She does not understand racial discrimination is much worse and dangerous than discrimination on hair colour. You’ll never worry about living in a particular neighborhood because of the colour of your skin.
As for the experiment. Very compelling TV, I just wish the last part was not sabotaged. I only hope those of white skin colour can look at this show, not with a defensive attitude and reluctance to believe racism is as prevalent; but with a willingness to open their eyes to something they may never truly encounter in their life.
hahahahahahahahah dave that is a response!!!!!
We are in 2009 and this so called teacher and educated professional did not have any idea that we are all the same underneath our skin, her comment still sends shudders through me. Ignorance and lack of knowledge has nothing to do with it, she teaches children in a school……Hopefully not for much longer.
Dave Smith, I have thought about your response and feel that you read a lot more into the teachers foolish comments than I do. I did not get the impression that she was implying anything about a that girl apart from her surprise that skin pigmentation is only detectable for millimetre or less beneath the surface of anyone’s skin.
Sorry, I must complete agree with Gubbs here. There was no inherently racist comment about what she said about flesh. Ignorance about the depth of skin pigmentation is not the same as racism. There was absolutely no underlying suggestion she “did not think they were human”. In fact, such an aspersion is itself racist; you are judging her ignorance of a biological fact as racist because she is white.
And as for the gentlemen who refused to pick up his daughter from school, that was frankly appalling behaviour. He has made a judgement about the latent conceptions of the other parents at his school because they are white (i.e. discriminatory judgement, i.e racist), and has in fact re-enforced such a judgement in the eyes of his daughter.
Finally, to Bob. That is inherently bullshit. ALL discrimination is equally wrong, regardless of that which it is about. It is against any notion of equality under human rights. To say that racism is worse than any form of discrimination is unbelievably ignorant. So, its more ok to be sexist than racist? Wow, so I guess I’ll go out an be misogynistic then, because at least its not racist.
Jane Eliot undermined herself totally by her belligerent manner and closed minded aggressive attitude. Racism does exist, and people need to be educated about it. The moment she claimed that “all white people are racist”, she undermined her entire work. She ignored major basic premises of discrimination as a violation of human rights. She did more harm than good to exposing the understanding.
I thought the experiment was an excellent piece of television. The blond teacher is definately a racist. If nothing else, if your child fals in school you’d expect the teachers main concern to be ‘is she/he OK’ not ‘oh their just like US under that dark stuff’. She also started to refer to someone as ‘colored’ and changed it mid-sentence. I wouldn’t like to see her sacked-just re-educated and maybe she needs to find another line of work? It’s sad that the mixed-race guy felt his daughter was better off if people thought she was white.
I think the conclusion for me is that racism is still alive and strong in the UK (1 milion votes for the BNP must have come from someone?). It’s suttle, but it’s still there.
what happened to the children of the orignal experiment? We were told they very quickly broke down under pressure and that the blue eyed children were dreadfully affected by the bullying of the brown-eyed children. These days if a teacher subjected a class of children to this type of behaviour it would be called child abuse. I understand and concur with the need to expose racism but I still worry that some of those original children may have born scars throughout their lives simply because they participated in Elliott’s mind games. Has anyone ever done follow ups on these children?
Peter Edwards, I am still not convinced that the ‘blond teacher’ is a racist from her comments, although she may well be.
Your first point about the initial reaction of a teacher should be the welfare of the child after falling is of course correct, but we do not have any information as to this was actually the case or not.
Your second point does not tell me that she was a racist either, whilst I prefer black rather than coloured, I do not think using the term coloured is racist. White people who do not have much exposure to other races are often unsure as to what collective noun is appropriate to use and her hesitation may well be because she didn’t want to offend. I’m just exploring the issue – the ‘blond teacher’ is not my mum!
The experiment was flawed from the start. For this to be accurate and conclusive both groups (Blue eyes and Brown eyes) would be required to have ethnic diversity. Only the Brown eyed group had members from various ethnic backgrounds. Both groups were not even from the start so the results are inconclusive and flawed. I also found the programme rather alarming in that it was insinuating that only white people are racist, this is in actual fact wrong as I have been on the receiving end of racism from some black Americans while on holiday in Florida. I think the programme should be refilmed with even ethnic diversity and also look at racism from both sides of the fence not just White’s being racists torwards Blacks or Asians or other ethnic groups but also look at whites being on the receiving end of racism.
Just my 2 cents.
You can not believe everything you watch on TV. This should be the first thought at the forefront of your mind when watching last nights program. I consider myself an extremely open-minded person and have, via university formed a very large network of friends from a large ranger of different backgrounds. However what I saw last night on TV was the most biased and racist anti-white programming outside of a mid 60’s Black Panther meeting.
While the focus of the above comments has been on the ignorance of the white school teacher, I cannot help feel that the supposed minorities displayed as much ignorance to other forms of discrimination as she did. While I understand the program was focused on racism, I could not believe the main spokeswoman for the brown eyed groups steadfast refusal to listen to the fact that many people suffer as much discrimination and predjudice for other physical attributes they were simply born with.
I consider myself lucky in that I have a large number of ethnically diverse friends, and in all our time of spending nights out in one of the largest cities in England we have never experienced a racist attack or slur. However what I have seen are people who have been unprovoked and viciously bullied for trivial matters as small as having ginger hair, being overwight or in one girls case having uneven or ‘cock’ eyes to being mentally or physically disabled. I have seen the effects this bullying, which for some of my friends has started in high school and still to this day has not stopped. There are many support groups for victims of racism, and a racist slur in school can mean instant expulsion. However mock someone for being overweight and you will recieve a warning if that.
You can talk about the degree and extent of racism (1 million voters for the BNP), however the degree and extent of other forms of discrimination are so easily accepted into the mainstream of society it’s actually frightening. Do you not think of the effects vicious bullying has on the mental health of victims of these other forms of discrimination?
Grubbs, The Blond is “A TEACHER OF OUR/YOUR CHILDREN” Teaching the future generation the fundamentals of how to be a civilised human being in a very cruel world. This programme was not based on racial issues in the UK; it was looking at all strands of diversity, race, religion, disability, sexual orientation and age. Jane Elliot done this by operating the “Blue eye-Brown eye” programme and it worked. These people agreed to do this experiment, let’s not forget that!! Those who walked away, walked away in denial, those who said awful comments (blond teacher) said what they said because that is what they truly believe. If she is saying that about black students, what is the woman saying about disabled students, gay students, religious students etc…If she gets home in one piece tonight it will be a miracle.
***Gubbs, sadly I can explain why such a thought it racist – because it implies that the young black girl is not a human being like other white people. As if, you were to go beneath the skin, it would reveal that as a black girl, she is made out of, I don’t know, lizard skin, or some monkey stuff.***
I think that Dave Smith is being just as racist (if not more so) in his above post as that teacher on the show. Though he’s not doing so intentionally, I’m sure.
Firstly, Dave Smith is taking the “we’re all the same under the skin” belief as some literal fact of biology instead of an expression of belief in a common humanity. The fact that we may all be physically the same beneath the surface veneer of our skin is irrelevant.
But far more insidiously, and it’s gobsmacking that he wasn’t wasn’t aware of just how racist an attitude he was showing when he typed this, Dave Smith equates having black physical characteristics to being an animal. Just suppose that, under the veneer of black skin, blacks actually did have flesh that was much darker than the flesh of whites? Would that be any less of a superficial difference than just having darker skin? Of course not.
So, while the teacher showed an appalling ignorance of simple biology, the fact that she may actually have believed that black people have a darker flesh colour than whites cannot be described as a racist attitude unless she also believed that having a different flesh colour makes you different as a person.
But the only one who has actually put forward the idea that dark flesh would make you less humans is Dave Smith with his attitude of: How could the teacher think that the black child would have dark flesh? The child isn’t an animal.
So having dark flesh would make someone an animal, would it, Dave? Very progressive.
As for the show itself, though theoretically laudable, I found it laughable in practice. Firstly, to be talked down to about racism by…er…a very white woman was surreal. It’s as if she was saying: what you whites just don’t realise is…
But where Jane’s approach really fell down for me was that it showed zero subtlety or nuance. All those silly posters about “brown eyes good, blue eyes bad” were just so obvious because the reality of racism in much of Britain is that it isn’t overt or segregationist. It’s a subtle undercurrent, not notices in hotel windows saying “No Blacks”. Just as Jane took her idea of how to teach racism to children and tried to transpose it to adults, she also tried to transpose America to Britain. The show would have been effective had it ended with the blue eyes thinking – so this is what it’s like to be discriminated against. But it just seemed to end with them thinking – god I hate that smug nasty American woman. Doesn’t that entrench attitudes rather than challenge then?
With that attitude, I thought Jane’s intention was less to educate the “oppressors” than to punish them.
CB I do understand a single point your post had to offer, to me you might as well have summed it up with the words ‘racism is bad!!!11 the program wuz effective lulz’. Those who walked away were richer for having avoided the whole affair if you ask me. They displayed the actions of the truly accepting and open minded, that of ‘why should I put ANYBODY through this, regardless of skin colour?’. The only message I got from this program was that you cannot stamp out racism, but merely turn it on it’s head. In a truly race hate free world it seems, white people must grovel to black, and black people readily and hungrily accept the majority role and dish out hate, as if white people have something to apologise for. I am not responsible for the actions of my ignorant forefathers. I think it is truly sick that this woman believes all white people, and she used us exclusively, are born either racist or ignorant.
Jane keep it up to the white people we all are racist and we need to change period to the black people try not to live to the stereotype of being criminals and gangster and please dress well.
I am with Alpha on that. What our ancestors done was not acceptable by any means but just beacuse that is what happened in the past does not mean that is what whites are like now. It would be like saying all Germans are Nazi’s just beacuse of how hitlers regime treated Jewish people back in World War 2. Racism does happen and it is not a one way affair. Equality is a balance but it would seem in the United Kingdom today there is no balance. We have for example “Black History Month” where is “White History Month” we also have “The Black Police Association” but where is “The White Police Association” in a way by having a group or association for only one ethnic background is a form of segregation. As far as I was aware we are done with segregation but if people feel the need to have single ethnicity associations then racism will always be an issue. We live in a multi cultural society so why do we feel the need to carry on segregating our selves into our own ethnic associations.
What I’d have loved someone to ask Jane in the question and answer bit at the end was this:
Jane, you say that all whites are racist. So if despite your subjecting children and adults to this exercise for X number of years, not one white on the planet is not a racist, hasn’t it all been a complete failure?
Greg Langford:
I think the point of the experiment and the programme itself has been rather lost on you. The fact that they were chosen for being blue eyed and brown eyed was not a flaw in the experiment – rather it was chosen deliberately so that the ‘picked on’ group would be for the most part white people. The experiment was to find out how they would react when exposed to the kind of discrimination that many ethnic minorities have had to deal with throughout their lives and the lives of their ancestors. After just an hour or two, the result was dissent and non-conformity – behaviour that people often associate with ethnic minority groups.
I think it’s funny how white people equate racist remarks towards them as being on a par with white racism against ethnic MINORITIES (this word is emboldened for a reason). The event you talk about in Florida probably was racist according to defintiion, and was surely not a very nice event – but it is NOT the same. The event would perhaps have made you feel a lot worse had history been the other way round – had black people ruled over white people, segregating them, lynching them, commodifying them as slaves, for no other reason than the colour of their skin. What if black people were the majority leaders in the main world powers. Perhaps, if that was the case, you would be so embittened with the lot that society had given you, that YOU would be the one picking on black tourists. This is the difference between racism, by definition, and institutionalised racism, which was the theme of this experiment.
Quite frankly, the idea of a programme about racism towards whites would probably be very boring. What do you think is going to make more compulsive viewing – The odd story here and there about middle class white folk who can afford to travel across the world and ’shock horror’ are subject to racism from the indiginous (and probably very poor) black people, or a terrifying insight into wide-scale, mainstream racism in 20th Century America?
Perhaps you’d like to have a read-up on the lynch mobs, and compare that to your relatively minor event of harrassment?
Firstly her technique is a load of BS. Although a few of the people (the old blond woman in particular, pink under black skin incident) werent very socially educated, none of them were racist, although with the political correctness in this country, it could seem that they are. Ive got blue eyes and red hair (and white skin). At school ive experienced racism between asians and black people, but i very rarely hear white racism against others (this isnt a private school). However all the time i hear black people callign white people ‘cracker’ and i myself have been called ‘gura’ and ‘whitey’ by indians. Most racism i hear, is between indiands e.g. sikhs and muslims. However having red hair, i am used to discrimination. I hear it on TV with people like Graham norton, and i hear it at school ofcourse, aswell as people in cars shouting abuse as i wlak home. The fatc is, racism is not as bad in this country as it is in the U.S., so her methods are out of place in the U.K.
@KingBensley is the point you are making that beacuse our ancestors were the cause of the slave trade that means any racist remarks towards whites from other ethnic origins is acceptable? It would seem that is what one is indicating. At the moment it seems we are getting entangled into a debate of racism between only Whites and from what I can gather based on your comment people from an African / Jamacian origin? I feel you are forgetting that there are other ethnic groups in the world which makes me beleive your views are based on historical events? Based on one of my previous comments is it then acceptable to put what you are saying into practice based on the Nazi’s killing Jews based on religion? I just cant imagine the Jewish community putting the blame on the current German generation for the events which happened in World War 2?
You can not blame a white man for the actions of his ancestors just as if i were to be victim of a crime I could not blame the grandfathers and grandmothers of that criminal for his actions?
KingBensley, you can’t have it both ways. One the one hand you say:
“I think it’s funny how white people equate racist remarks towards them as being on a par with white racism against ethnic MINORITIES (this word is emboldened for a reason).”
On the other hand you say:
“The odd story here and there about middle class white folk who can afford to travel across the world and ’shock horror’ are subject to racism from the indiginous (and probably very poor) black people.”
You only seem to object to racism when practised by a majority upon a minority. But, if the white tourists are being subjected to racism by “indigenous” blacks, then aren’t the blacks in that country by definition in the majority and whites in the minority?
Pity no-one ever proposes experiments where blacks get bullied by gays to see how they like being ostracised for their sexuality. Might show that, far from all whites being bigots, it’s more likely that all humans are bigots and the blacks have just had the worst of it so far because whites tend to hold the power in the world.
Alpha – I don’t think Jane does truly think that ‘all whites are racists’. She was saying that for the sake of the experiment, for the reaction from the white people in the group. It showed that people cannot cope very well with being pigeonholed, which is how a lot of black people feel in this day and age. And the horrendous history between whites and blacks has a lot to do with this, in a way that we (I am guessing that you are white, too!), as the former oppressor, finds hard to understand. No one is asking you to ‘grovel’ to the black person – just merely try and be sympathetic.
Hi Greg Langford,
My focus on black history was because your point was that you had been the subject of racial harassment from blacks. If you want to talk about our colonial influence on asian history, I’m more than willing to do that with you?
Funny you should mention the jews and the nazis, this was something I was just about to mention. I actually live in Berlin, and believe me the Germans are not being allowed to forget about the atrocious crimes they commited against the Jews. A massive monument was erected in the very centre of town, about the size of Leicester Square and in the equivalent area, just a couple of years ago. And the German government pays massive reparations to Israel. You cannot move in Berlin for some kind of reminder.
I am not saying what happened to you on holiday is acceptable. I don’t know of anyone who would say that it was. I genuinely feel very sorry for you. I received some of what could be classed as racist abuse for the fact that I was white at secondary school. I am just pointing out to you that it is not the same. It was not the same because these kids were mostly living in poverty. I could go home to the comfort of my middle class home, switch on the telly and there were lots of white people on it. It was forgotten about quite easily.
So yes, anyway, I don’t think it’s acceptable on either side. But you have to understand how the history, on the grand scheme of things, is recent. The fact is that the revurbarations are still being felt in society. Not by you perhaps, because you are white, and the institution is still mainly white.
It was an interesting test for a couple of different reasons really: if the brown eyes had ganged up aggressively on the blues, that might have shown that they were just as easily led to be racist as white people.
But they didn’t. They were quite civilised, rather than being viciously bullying as Jane even encouraged them to be, they were for the most part polite. The blue eyes, on the other hand, got pretty defensive. They weren’t being bullied, they were just being asked to consider a point that one or two of them point blank refused to cede.
I think they should have considered less that ‘all white people are racist’ – this is of course untrue – but instead that ‘most white people (unwittingly or not) go along with an unfair system in which they wield more power than minority groups’.
I’m a white person but I got so angry when that teacher refused to accept the statistics that were being told to her, and exposed her shocking and inexcusable ignorance at the colour of a black girl’s flesh. I’m only 22 and come from a pretty white middle class community, and I know that under the black skin, black people look just the same as white people. What did she think, that black people had black blood perhaps??
I don’t think all white people are racist, and I think non-white people can be racist too. But I think those who deny the general trend of white-on-black racism in this country are kidding themselves. It is rarer by far for a white person to be a victim of racism – a real victim that is, a victim of violence or not getting a job etc, rather than just being called whiteboy or whatever (I mean, cry me a fricking river, how DO white people manage with that sort of abuse)
I think the point you are forgetting is that Racism is Racism regardless of what side it comes from. If you want to stamp out racism then one would have to start to accept that you cant have it both ways. I accept that what happened to blacks in history was appalling but then again that is no god given right for some blacks to feel the need to voice abuse at todays generation of white people. To make life better you have to look forward to the future and not dwell on the past. I had no control over what my ancestors done so I am not to blame although I do sympathize. I think all races need to become more accepting and understanding of each other and focus on this generation not previous generations. What has happened can not be changed but the future can be made better but things have to change both sides of the fence not just one side.
Hi Steve Jones
“You only seem to object to racism when practised by a majority upon a minority. But, if the white tourists are being subjected to racism by “indigenous” blacks, then aren’t the blacks in that country by definition in the majority and whites in the minority”
Ok I admit, I was playing rather fast and loose in my use of the term indigenous and I was doing it perhaps in a provocative way. We all know, of course, that neither whites nor blacks are indigenous to the United States. In fact, the true definition of indiginous refers to a group of people who have great ancestral connections to a country – this does not necessarily mean they are a majority. Just look at the Maoris in New Zealand, or the Indians in America.
“Pity no-one ever proposes experiments where blacks get bullied by gays to see how they like being ostracised for their sexuality. Might show that, far from all whites being bigots, it’s more likely that all humans are bigots and the blacks have just had the worst of it so far because whites tend to hold the power in the world”
Gay people get bullied by all sorts actually, not just black people. There is a lot of homophobia in CERTAIN kinds of rap and reggae music, and this is something that could be explored by a TV programme, definitely… it’s very sad that kids are growing up listening to such hatefulness. But there’s also a lot of homophobia in the Christian church, which is a far bigger and wide-reaching institution. So perhaps that would be a more appropriate subject for our programme about homophobia?
” far from all whites being bigots, it’s more likely that all humans are bigots and the blacks have just had the worst of it so far because whites tend to hold the power in the world”
Well, this is a good and true point, I agree with it totally. But I think you are missing the point of the programme, as did all those people who walked out – the point of the programme wasn’t to show how white people are all bigots and racists. The subtlety of the point was to show how people react to irrational discrimination.
Ellie, I agree entirely.
you said it right ellie. Some people just don’t get it.
I’m quite surprised that still no one has picked up on the fact that the children on whom Elliott experimented back in the 60s were seriously affected by this process and that from the very start this has been nothing more than a poor demonstration of ‘in-group/out-group’ psychology.
I am less concerned with whether the white teacher is a racist or not and more concerned with ANY behaviour from ANYBODY that abuses and disrespects ANY OTHER PERSON, irrespective of their colour, faith, intelligence etc…
I am also concerned that Elliott did not seem to have moved forward from her original message postulated in the 60s, to a position where we have some kind of solutions proposed. Surely, if she has done this experiment countless times around the globe she has come to a better understanding of racism than simply ‘all white people are racists’? And surely one would think that she had taken everyone’s feedback over the years and found a new way forward through it all? But no. Apparently not. I wonder therefore if this experiment says more about Elliott than it does about today’s societal views of racism.
I do not consider myself racist, but doubtless Elliott would say I am a racist because it is ‘genetically hotwired’ into me by being white, or that I am a racist because to say I am not a racist means I must be one – that old therapy thing where any denial means you prove the point in case.
So, I ask again – what about those original children? How did it affect their lives for better or worse?
I was very excited to watch the show as I am trainee teacher and was shown the original experiment in a lecture on promoting equality in a lecture a few weeks ago.
I though Jane Elliot’s original experiment was brilliant and fascinating. From our point of view as future teachers the experiment showed us the effect that any kind of discrimination – be it about the colour of a pupil’s skin, their eye colour, their family background, the shoes they are wearing, their SATs score etc etc – can have a negative effect on the performance of a pupil in lessons (the original experiment showed that being subject to this discrimination led the kids to perform worse in class and lower their self esteem).
As a trainee teacher I found the blonde woman’s refusal to listen to another person’s point of view typical of the problems in the education system into which I am about to enter. Her ignorance and lack of interest, from what I have observed in only 7 weeks of a PGCE course, is typical of so many teachers these days – set in their ways, indignant, refusing to see the point of view of anyone else – how are children supposed to learn anything from people like her these days? I think she was disgraceful and I hope her school was embarrassed as it should have been.
As a future teacher I hope that should I have any ignorant thoughts as “I was surprised she had pink skin underneath like everyone else” I will keep them to myself (especially on camera) given that I will supposedly be a role model for young people. Did anyone else see her nodding her head and agreeing to the woman who said “There’s just as many of THEM as there are of US these days!?” So it’s them and us is it?! That’s strange seeing as 5 minutes earlier she had been arguing that there is no racism these days!
Having said that I think that trying the experiment on adults who Jane Elliot had never met is somewhat flawed if the experiment is to have the same effect as it did with her thurd grade class back in the 60s. I think anyone (racist or not) as an adult is likely to react negatively and to be argumentative when they feel they are being attacked, even if they aren’t middle class ignorant idiots like that blonde woman. The difference with her class back in the 60s was that she was their school teacher – they knew and trusted her, they were used to following her every instruction, therefore the experiment was much more effective and even life changing for them.
Never the less I find Jane Elliot’s ideas very interesting and feel we can learn a lot from her. I hope the blonde woman did but I doubt she will ever see anyone’s point of view but her own. Shame for her pupils.
I was one of the participants of the The Event: How Racist Are You? (the one with the Dred lox) and must agree with much of what is written in the original article; for example the term ‘Event’ was an over egging of what was shown. I would however say that the word ‘Event’ is an understatement of the whole process and what was actually filmed. Had the length of the programme been extended – perhaps over 2 nights, viewers would have been blown away by the journey some of the participants went on. Once the main part of the exercise was finished we had a de-brief period where we wrote down what we felt about the whole experience. Then in turn we stood up and talked about how we thought the exercise had gone, what personal journey we went on and what we would take away. This to me was the most poignant part of the entire time, because most (not Terry the closed off teacher) of us went on a journey which lead to an awakening of what minorities have to ENDURE.
Like is talked about during the filming “I play the game” …and unfortunately I have to play it very well otherwise I could not have achieved what I have in my lifetime. I have not allowed my colour to dictate my lifestyle or my successes/failures – Don’t get me wrong I have seen people cross the road immediately after making eye contact with me. I was also called a drug dealer when at 24 I bought a Porsche 911 through my very successful company. Pearl gave an example of being in a queue at a hotel and being ignored while the person behind was dealt with first. She gave that example because that had happened the night before to me and we talked about it over dinner. As suggested in the program when you feel discriminated against if you stand up for yourself you are perpetuating the idea that you are a trouble maker, therefore you shut up and conform.
I was fortunate enough to have been brought up by the greatest mother to walk the planet who was only 15 when I was born. Her life as a single parent was a struggle and full of discrimination for having a mixed race child. I learned a lot from what I saw growing up and since 22 I have spent the majority of my time working for myself. This has allowed me to reclaim a lot of the power which is taken from Black/mixed race people by a bias system – to those (normally white people) who would disagree that the system is bias, you didn’t understand the program and like Terry your ignorance is bliss.
NOBODY has every suggested I have a chip on my shoulder, although I do know people who this would be a fair evaluation. Sadly though these are the people who either never learned to play the game or didn’t feel they should. These people have found their lives have been moulded by an unfair system and media stereotypes (but dont get me on that one!)
Jane Elliot…Mother Of Diversity or Money Grabber?
I saw the original exercise 10 years ago and was blown away by it, so when I saw Jane at the filming I was so excited to be part of something which I had talked about many times in the past. I would go so far to say that I put Jane Elliot on a pedestal. As Krishnan mentioned Jane had said she would not be doing this exercise again – as a mixed race man I felt that that exercise should never stop. During the filming Jane had said that she could not find anybody to continue her work and that although one person in Scotland has been trained by her, nobody would be continuing her ‘brand’. As an entrepreneur I saw an opportunity to get involved with something I was very passionate about. I spoke to Jane about this and she was very happy to look at me starting a business around her brand/exercise.
I came home the following day and immediately got to work on a proposal and a demo web site (www.friendsof.co.uk). I emailed the ideas to her lawyer who emailed me and said that Jane would be happy to go ahead, but would want $25k for me to spend a week staying with her to be trained. Although this is a lot of money, I believed that it was not expensive to be able to offer such a valuable exercise using the Jane Elliot brand. I decided that until the show had been given a transmission date that I would not progress things. Around the start of September I received and email from Jane asking me to remove the web site as I was not ‘licensed’ to offer her exercise. Not wanting to cause a problem with my potential business partner within an hour I added a front page which said the site was for demonstration purposes only. I emailed Jane to ask if this was ok but received no reply so I presumed it was ok. At the start of October I was told about the program going out in the last week of the month. I emailed Jane and said that I was happy to pay the $25k but wanted to discuss payment terms etc and told her that I wanted to send someone else to be trained as I felt that the exercise should be done by a white person rather than myself. I sent the email from my marketing business account marvin@nonoodle.co.uk .I received a very prompt reply from Jane’s Lawyers saying “Nonoodle – does this mean “no brain” in the UK” I immediately called her lawyer in the US to ask what she meant. Her lawyer apologised but informed me that she didn’t mean to send it to me! I was obviously blown away by this – how can a lawyer of Jane Elliot feel she can refer to someone in such a derogatory way. I decided to email them both back, so I sent the following –
“Susan, I keep reading your message in case I am missing something, but no…..your reply is wholly and unacceptably offensive. I understand that you didn’t realise you were sending it to me, but that just makes it worse. I am a successful businessman with a phenomenal respect for Jane yet you feel you can talk about me in such a derogatory manor. I would expect this type of communication to be transmitted between bigots, racists and uneducated Neanderthal, but not the legal representative of the mother of diversity training!
So please explain what gives you the impression that I have ‘No Brain’.”
I expected an apology from Jane along with a reprimand for Susan…… Three weeks on and I have had no reply from either party.
The who ethos of the Jane Elliot exercise is respect everybody no matter of origin or background, yet her lawyer feels comfortable to talk to Jane in such a fashion
I can only draw the conclusion that Jane is not the mother of diversity, but someone who had an idea which she has created a lucrative career around. Does she live by her exercise…well you can decide that, but I have not been made to feel quite so negative in any of my business dealings over the last 12 years.
The pedestal has not been removed. I’m thankful for the opportunity to take part in the exercise but the overall journey I went on has sadly left me with a cynical perspective of Jane Elliot.
Johnny says:
“And as for the gentlemen who refused to pick up his daughter from school, that was frankly appalling behaviour. He has made a judgement about the latent conceptions of the other parents at his school because they are white (i.e. discriminatory judgement, i.e racist), and has in fact re-enforced such a judgement in the eyes of his daughter.”
I’m sorry you feel my behaviour was appalling, but I didn’t make a judgement about ‘latent conceptions’ but rather on personal experience. I also didnt refuse. I made aneducated decsion based on experiance. As a mixed race child I experienced overt racism in the school environment. This is because of ignorant parents projecting onto their unassuming children. I do not want to take chance on my daughter having to experience being left out of games, being called names I won’t repeat and feeling like a second class human being simply because her father is black. Your comments simply highlight an unwillingness to accept another’s feelings!
Sorry your article is devoid of any substnace what so ever which only leads me to assume your white?
You have balatantly skipped all of the blue-eyed participants reaction to the tests!
Of the so-called teacher who still assumes black people are a different species in 2009
Or the other person who assumed being discriminated against because he is over weight has any comparison to racial discrimination
The only thing I congratulate you for is standing up to be counted amongst the ignorant who moaned about the means instead of the end result
First to set out my stall:
Racism is a terrible thing (as are all forms of hateful prejudice)
Racism happens in Britain and is mostly directed against non-whites
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6128466.stm
On to the program..
The lesson might have been relevant in the 60s but I fail to see how berating middle-class liberals (IMO surely the least offensive group in Britian?) serves any purpose other than to put them on the defensive, no matter how cathartic it might be for the minorities involved.
Is it beyond the realms of possibility that some white people genuinely aren’t racist and might object to being given ‘a lesson’ by people who have never met them before and know nothing about them? (and are judging them on their skin colour – does anyone else see the ridiculous irony there?)
@Marvin Baker
You seem a thoroughly decent chap and while I don’t agree with your evaluation of the worth of the experiment I think you might have got the wrong end of the stick from Susan the lawyer.
‘Noodle’ is another word for your head so nonoodle could mean no-brain. It’s a crap joke but certainly not a racist one.
Derek
When I rang Susan I rang thinking she was making a joke. I didn’t realise she had mailed me by accident. Her manor on the phone and followed by a stone cold silence is what brings me to the conclusion that it was more than a simple joke which I misunderstood.
God! some of you, take a chill pill..this is soooooo 1950`s
/60`s…..stop! wiv all this racist crap..I was bought up
with black people…and have had the best years of my life with
my mates…and as for the programe..Well to me it shouldnt have
been shown, if its gonna course this sorta thing!!
Long live Riddley Road…..lol!
@Marvin Baker
I might be wrong in this case but I think on this occasion your racism meter might be set a little too high? She was probably mortally embarrassed. Does she even know you’re black? Even if she does, don’t you think it’s unlikely that someone working for an anti-racism crusader (however misguided) would be a closet racist?
Would hate for you to miss out on a business opportunity because of a breakdown in communication.
@ Natalie – totally agree!
I was shocked at the denial of the blue eyed group in the experiment. The school teacher who so vehemenently denied that she was racist, made a disgusting comment about how she was shocked to see that under a black persons skin, the color was pink. What did she expect, black?
I am asian and UK is my home, it is the only home I have known. I live in Surrey, which everyone will agree is dominantly a white, middle class area. Whether people recognise it or not, racism is there and I feel it in every aspect of my life, as I see that my children do. That is a fact and I believe that unfortunate as it may be, I think this is so ingrained in everyones being, that it cannot be changed,ever.
Teeeehee Derek! Still at least people can air there views…just gets me goat when something like that it on tv..and courses a rifft
in this day & age…Still, spose it keeps us on our toes
This is really doing my head in.
How is it racist not to know what colour is immediately under someone’s skin???
I didn’t know. There are hardly any black people in Scotland and there were none in my school. Now I know it’s pink.
This nonsense totally misses the point. There are people out there who genuinely HATE PEOPLE ON THE BASIS OF THEIR RACE and it is these people who should be confronted. Attacking people who are at worst curious and a little bit out of touch will only drive them towards the extremists.
The teacher may have been mildly ignorant on race (in some pretty inoffensive IMO ways eg. saying coloured instead of black) but this is not one of them.
Derek! Dont let it do ya head in babe…listen, Its takes all
sorts to make the world go around…
I have just gone back and read a all the comments written by everybody, especially Mr Martin Baker. I understand what you mean by conforming as I have been doing just that for the last six years of my life and only then have I been able to have a reasonable relationship with my peers. Before that I was quietly submissive and liked to go unnoticed, but as I grew older I realised that I was never going to get anywhere in life if I stayed in teh background. Over teh last six years, I thought I was being accepted, but comments from colleagues and superiors in my department (HR) opened my eyes. There was once a discussion of which superhero you would dress up as at a fancy dress party, when I was asked, before I could answer, my colleague said ‘oh she’d probably strap some sausages around her waist adn come as a suicide bomber’. This is from someone who is apparently is not racist. Another day, my HR manager’s comment to my husband growing up in Asia was ‘what? another asian here’ . I was also constantly bullied by another HR manager, who made apparently ‘acceptable’ overt racist comments about me, until I became physically ill and had to be taken to hospital. I’ve also been to the posh office christmas party, (dressed in a saree), where I was singled out and it was very apparent because I was the only asian there. The list is endless, but it exists, whether people accept it or not, it is there and as Krishnan said, it is in such a subtle form, you can almost make yourself believe that it doesn’t exist and Britain is not a racist country.
Marvin – that’s an incredible story and confirms my impression that Jane Elliott is a very good businessperson.
Whether she’s a force for social good is frankly another matter.
Judging by the programme and what I can glean of her methodology, it’s akin to a boot camp ‘break em down then build em up again’ technique. This simple technique has been deployed in countless fields, from training seminars such as EST and Insight, to organisations requiring obedience such as the army.
It’s basically a hazing ritual, claiming to be of social worth, and earning Elliott a lot of money.
I remain to be convinced that the blue eyes/brown eyes idea has any validity but has been given ‘legs’ by post-1968 identity politics. It’s subtle as a flying mallet and similarly, is a force of destruction proferred by a person with a sadistic psychological disorder.
Wow! I’ve read everyone views and I think some valid points have been made, while it’s also evident that the definition of ‘racism’ is still a gray area for others, and by comparing it to other trivial experiences (like being fat, or a skinhead, or teased) almost undermines the experiences of those who have been discriminated against from the moment of their birth. This is why there needs to be more of a dialogue about racism and the experiences of others in this country; only then will people learn to empathise – maybe.
However, I do agree the experiment, although insightful, had it’s flaws because it didn’t quite work in the cultural context of the UK. And her gung-ho personality probably riled people up more than if she had just rolled out the activities with a ‘fake smile and false enthusiasm’ and see how people respond to the contradictory behaviour, because after all, that’s what you could argue happens in the UK. Maybe back in the 70s, the NF were happy to be blatantly racist in the streets of North London; nowadays, it’s often hidden behind a false veil of friendliness.
But yep – I’m enjoying reading everyone’s different views on the topic. Very insightful.